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This is a conversation between myself and artist, writer, and very good friend Charlie Andrés regarding a shared space we call Autism Afternoons. More information about Charlie and links to their stuff can be found at the end of the episode.
Ashton Rose: Do you want to introduce yourself a little bit, talk about how we know each other?
Charlie Andrés: Sure. My name is Charlie, I am 24 years old. I am a Sagittarius, is my sun sign, I don’t remember what my others are. Ashton and I met in an educational psychology course in-God, what was that? 2022-ish?
Ashton: I think fall of ’22.
Charlie: Fall of 2022 at Macalester College. What else is there to know? I don’t know, we started hanging out, and we’ve hung out ever since. It’s been really great. And through that, we’ve gotten to see each other through some really big life transitions. I’ve also come into my autistic identity, and just kind of navigating that alongside Ashton has been really beautiful. Just the way that they hold space for that is something that I truly admire. So I’m just really happy to be here.
Ashton: Thank you. Before I get into that a little more, what do you do? What are your things?
Charlie: What do I do? What are my things? I’m an artist. That’s kind of my big thing. So I do letterpress printing, is my major thing. And then I do some other book arts type things. So bookbinding, I’m kind of into screen printing, paper marbling, paper making is on the horizon at some point. And then I do a lot of poetry writing. And sometimes I teach classes, but it’s not really so much of a thing right now, but I’m around and I do a lot of gig work and things that just make me happy, things around art. I spend a lot of time with art and people that make me happy.
Ashton: And that’s kind of a large part of our connection. [Charlie: huge] We both spend a lot of time with art. And, partially through art, you have been a very large part of me coming into and accepting my own autistic identity.
Charlie: Oh really?
Ashton: Yes! I think we’ve had that kind of back and forth.
Charlie: That’s really sweet. I see you so much as the leader.
Ashton: I mean, I think by the time we met, that was only after my first summer [in MN], so I still wasn’t fully confident in it. But I think getting to hang out with you and see you inhabiting that so openly was also very helpful.
Charlie: It’s definitely like a co- What do you call that? A mutually beneficial kind of thing. I think we were exhibiting that for each other, and then that, very inherently, brought it out in us and each other. It was really lovely.
Ashton: And since we’re both artists, a lot of how we’ve hung out is doing crafts together. And I think it was you who coined the term crafternoon at first, because like once a month we’d just hang out, put on a baking show, do some parallel crafts. And then at some point that went from crafternoon to Autism Afternoon. And I know that was also you.
Charlie: I don’t remember where that came from. I think it might have been a conversation with my partner, where I was like, yeah, this is our little autistic time together. Again, we have our little routine, we do our little craft, we watch our little baking show in the background. We work on crafts. It’s also a really great space for- sometimes I’ll come in with a task that needs doing. The body doubling is great, too. So I think that’s another component of our relationship that’s been really beneficial, is having that body doubling. When me and my ex broke up, about a year and a half ago, I very quickly had to move out of this apartment, and I was breaking a lease, and it was a whole stressful thing. And Ashton just came over and helped pack a little bit. And then also was simultaneously battling- what were you?
Ashton: I was on the phone with the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance people. On hold for like an hour and a half.
Charlie: And you would come into my room and I would be hyperfixating on packing things a very specific way, and you’d be like, “this is minute 47.” It was really nice. I mean, that was a rough breakup. We were together for two and a half years or so, so that very sudden transition was really scary. And I was transitioning out of my living space, and that was hard. So just to have, again, that body double, the physical person there just to hold space with while I do these kind of emotional tasks. But also hold and celebrate this space that I had with this person that meant a lot to me, and to bring it out with these really solid, very sweet memories of friendship and connection was really wonderful.
Ashton: And you very recently helped me move out of my space.
Charlie: I sure as fuck did. And we did pay each other in food. Which is great.
Ashton: And now we’re sitting in my brand new space, having this conversation.
Charlie: Which is amazing.
Ashton: I see a lot of poetic… something, there?
Charlie: It’s like parallels or something in a really nice way. Again, just watching each other come into ourselves, and come into our relationships and evolve as people, has been really wonderful. Watching each other kind of struggle through some tough relationships and evolve through that, it’s just been really beautiful. And, I just really admire you as a person, too. I hope you know that.
Ashton: Thank you. Yeah, I say that a lot about you, too.
Charlie: Yeah, I talk about you all the fucking time. Everybody knows who you are. I’ve got my cast of characters. I’ve got my friends, the people that I kind of lay out, and everyone’s like, “Oh, my God, Ashton, yeah, absolutely.”
Ashton: You know, I do crafts a lot more for fun, not professionally, but I do write professionally, and you’ve been my first person-I-actually-know example of an artist living an artist’s life. Because, you know, Rachel lives a writer’s life. But that’s a little bit different, and that has been both very inspirational and comforting to see, and also just great to be a part of. And to watch you grow into that, because when we met, you weren’t really doing that.
Charlie: Yeah it’s been really, really cool to come into that for myself too. I was so much more in a supporting role in my last relationship. In this one, I’m doing it, and I’m like, really pursuing that actively. And it’s so cool to get to share that with you too. You influence a lot of the art I make. I have a “shrimps is bugs” print that is absolutely because of you.
Ashton: It is in a box somewhere ready to go up on the wall.
Ashton: Returning back to our afternoons a little bit, although it’s currently before noon, I should say.
Charlie: Autism morning. It doesn’t have the same-
Ashton: It’s not alliterative. We’ve started hinting at this with body doubling. But to a lot of people, like, what we do is craft. How is craft an autistic thing? So to you, how are these afternoons, or these spaces, how is that an autistic space for you?
Charlie: I think it’s an autistic space because it’s something that we both get really, really into and very passionate and excited about. Again, it turns into very much a parallel play thing where sometimes we’ll have conversations and we’ll kind of catch up, and other times there will be these long stretches of silence where we’re both really focusing on our little craft, or our little task that we’re doing. I think that’s the biggest thing, and also just the nature of crafting in general takes, I feel like, takes this level of concentration to it. You can really tell when people lock into it.
Ashton: Yeah, not all crafters are autistic, but like, we’re definitely very prone to it. I think for me, it’s very similar, but it’s also been a space where we can both feel comfortable enough to just let ourselves be autistic without feeling the need to mask. We have stims, play with fidgets, go silent for an hour while we’re really focused on something. Or, you know, we’ll be watching a baking show that I really enjoy, and part of my autistic joy is sharing my comfort shows with other people, and then you’ll sit there and echolalia some of the lines that people say. We’re just so clearly comfortable in that space, which is a form of crip space, yeah? It’s beyond just the crafting.
Charlie: It’s the social component. It’s getting to share things in space. And again, something that I really admire about you is the level of care that you put into your space. That’s always been true, that was true in your last place, and it’s very, very true in this space, which is, is this your first apartment by yourself?
Ashton: Yep.
Charlie: So watching you come into your own space and evolve. And I’m trying not to cry. I’m so proud of you! But… you have always been a host. You are a host-mindsetted person, so when we hang out, it’s usually at your place, because I’m not really a host. That’s just not who I am as a person. And you just have this way of bringing people into your space.
Charlie: I don’t remember the first time we hung out, but I do remember shooting the- Ashton had this tradition in their last place, where they had this Nerf gun with a thumbtack in the bullet, and when you arrived for the first time, you were allowed to shoot it into a wall or a ceiling, which is a very like, sacred initiation experience. And it immediately made me feel this sense of belonging and connection, which is something that’s really important to me. And I mean, obviously that’s a very human need, but it’s something that I assign a lot of value and adoration to. So to have that space be so held is really important to me, and Ashton is just really fucking amazing at doing that, always.
Ashton: Thank you. I mean, I’m a kitchen witch. And also grew up with, like, my family was the hosters for a lot of things, and I loved party planning. I planned two surprise parties that were huge deals. So being able to invite people into that space has always been very important to me. And even as I’m setting this space up I’m thinking about not just what works for me, but what will work if I have a group of folks here.
Ashton: As part of that intentionality you were talking about, I will post pictures of these, but I wanted to show I do have a scale model of the apartment. [Editor’s note: I seem to have misplaced the papers in the weeks since this conversation and am thusly unable to include photos.]
Charlie: Oh you were telling me about this, which I’m so excited about. This is also very autistic of you.
Ashton: Yes, scale model of the apartment with my furniture planning.
Charlie: Oh, this is, there are measurements.
Ashton: There are measurements too, which I had to do math because I packed my architect scale away, of course. Because I own an architect scale.
Charlie: Of course you do.
Ashton: So, yes, I do get very intentional about it, and I do enjoy it. I brought my tape measure. I measured the walls and everything, because they didn’t have a floor plan with measurements. I measured the whole thing, like drew this out, and I had already measured all my furniture before it got packed up. It was a very autistic moment, I must say.
Charlie: And that just really speaks to the level of intentionality and purpose you have in creating your space. I feel like you had some level of this in your last place, but with a roommate and stuff, it’s different. This is your place, and I can tell that you are being so intentional about building that from the ground up, and that’s so cool to see.
Ashton: Thank you. I do try very hard, and once the furniture got here and everything got in place, it feels really nice to be in here now.
Charlie: It’s your house!
(Episode continues below)
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Charlie: I don’t know if there’s that much else to say about Autism Afternoons. It’s always been a pretty straightforward, very autistic space. And we do use it as a social catch up time too. That’s a component of it. Something that I really struggle with as an autistic person, possibly ADHD/AuDHD situation, is just having a really hard time maintaining relationships with people and figuring out what that looks like in relation to reserving energy for myself and the other things that I have to do, like work and whatever. I think that’s the main reason why our friendship has worked through the few years that we’ve been together, is that you’re the one who reaches out pretty much always. Which is great. That’s fucking awesome.
Ashton: I mean, when it comes to planning, yeah, but you definitely do text me random stuff too.
Charlie: Ok, good. But yeah, I feel like Autism Afternoons has been a really sustainable way to show up and catch up with each other and not have to feel like I have to reserve energy for anything. It’s a very low key, low stress thing. Other friendships and other relationships are like that too, but not in the same way. It’s a very sacred, sweet little space that we’ve created that I just really love.
Ashton: I really do like that word for it, because I was thinking about that in the intentionality of space. How that is kind of spiritual to me as well. Another thing I thought of was, it is usually in my space, but there are occasionally other ventures, especially the first time we went to Anchor Paper together.
Charlie: Oh my God. Also very autistic.
Ashton: And I just remember you texting me and being like, “I need to go to this paper warehouse. Do you want to go with me?” And I said, “there’s a paper warehouse?”
Charlie: I was like, “fuck yeah, there’s a paper warehouse.”
Ashton: “We’re going, obviously.” I think we did a couple other things that day as well, but we took a large portion of the afternoon to just drive to Anchor Paper Express. I think you needed papers for… it wasn’t the time that you needed them for the market or the fair you were going to, it was before then.
Charlie: I got a bunch of colored paper, right? That sounds right. That might have been for Flores y Cacao, which was a printing thing that I did.
Ashton: That was the second time. I can’t remember what you needed the first time we were there.
Charlie: Who’s to say. I just love a remote excuse to go there.
Ashton: I remember we walked in and the front’s kinda small. I was like, oh, this is cool. And you took me into the back, and it was literally a warehouse full of just rows and rows of, like, uncut, full, massive sheets of paper. And I kind of lost my mind a little bit.
Charlie: It’s a little overwhelming.
Ashton: But in such a good way for me, because I love paper and I love paper crafts.
Charlie: Which is something that we totally connect over too, and getting to see that evolve. Sometimes you’ll send me little letters and little cards you’ve made, and you showed me how to make little pop-up cards. So sometimes there’s a tutorial aspect to the Autism Afternoon where you’ll show me how to make a pop-up card or something along the lines, because you’re also very much a teacher, that is that is a very inherent part of your identity and how you carry yourself, which I love. So getting to be a student in that way is very great, and getting to learn from you and hold that space is very cool.
Ashton: I remember when you were practicing because you were going to do your paper bookbinding class with Michael Prior. And you were practicing with me and a couple other friends. So getting to reverse that for a second, because I didn’t know much about bookbinding, and I learned some from you and some from YouTube in the past couple years.
Charlie: That’s been so cool to get to share that with somebody too, because it’s such a niche art form. I’m in that space all the time, but it’s really great to get to share that with somebody who’s not always in the book art space. People in the book art space are great, but they take it too seriously.
Ashton: Yeah, that’s why I don’t do crafts professionally. I don’t want to take it seriously.
Charlie: Exactly! It’s not that serious. My approach to crafting, to bookbinding specifically, is like… Because I’m in these book arts professional spaces, I see these people taking it really seriously and needing to make things that are going to last hundreds of years. And I just want to make a print that says “shrimps is bugs” and make some gay people laugh about it. It doesn’t need to be this whole thing. But also, a lot of my letter press practices are rooted in immortalizing words and phrases and things. I do have a lot of echolalia, which is where the “shrimps is bugs” comes from specifically.
Charlie: A lot of my other prints too are rooted in me really wanting to remember something that somebody said, or just a little trend or something. So I’ve got a, “I’m literally just a girl” print, I’ve got a “gendy nooch” print, I’ve got a “girl dinner” print, and then I’ve got this series of things that my partner said. And one of the things is, “if we must, we can rally, but we were meant to dilly dally.” So I see letterpress as this way to immortalize these things that are otherwise seen as frivolous. There’s this level of intentionality to it that I see with bookbinding too, the amount of care and effort that goes into constructing a book is a lot. And I see that you see the value in that, and that feels really good too, that we hold these spaces for each other.
Ashton: I know I’ve definitely spent more than one Autism Afternoon yapping about whatever book project I’m working on.
Charlie: Which is great. It’s so good to hear it too. I think on the way to Anchor Paper, either the first or second time you told me the full, like, arc of Halo.
Ashton: I told you the full arc of the Flood in Halo. The full arc of Halo would take me like five hours.
Charlie: Okay, you told me the Flood arc.
Ashton: That was the first time we went. I do remember that. Oh, and we went to a thrift store that day. You got, like, a bread costume, I think.
Charlie: Oh my God, the bread costume, yeah. I wore that to a friend’s wedding. It was crazy. People still refer to me as, they’re like, you were the piece of bread!
Ashton: Well, as we’re wrapping up, any links you want to have, things you’re working on, where people can find your work?
Charlie: I’m mostly on Instagram right now, @charliehorsepress. I also sell my work at the Minnesota Center for Book Arts and Simply Creative in Minneapolis. I’m around. Hit me up. Charliehorsepress@gmail.com if you feel like shooting me a line. I hope to have a website at some point, but I don’t think that’ll be too soon.
Charlie: Thanks for having me! Thanks for the conversation. I love to talk about this.
Ashton: It’s been really great to reflect on this journey. I think we talk about it in small pieces, but to sit down and really reflect on what this has meant to each of us has been, I don’t know, really great. I’m very emotional now.
Charlie: And thinking about the journey of autism in general, again, coming to the autism acceptance and being in that space. Specifically, when was that? A couple weeks ago, you hosted a dinner party at your old place for the last time. And I think you’ve done a really good job of holding autistic spaces before, but this was the first time that I came in and—I was sitting on the floor, so that was maybe part of it—but I remember just kind of sitting there and watching everybody interact with each other. And it was just a very neurodivergent, beautiful space to be in. Again, just how you curate space is very meaningful to me.
Charlie: I think we help each other’s understanding of autism evolve too, which is awesome and cool, and we get to cultivate and hold that joy for each other in a way that’s, yeah, very sacred, very cool, very neat.
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Ashton Rose 